Sonja, I wanted to mention that authors can promote new books for FREE on LibraryThing. Their newsletter goes out once a month to their 3.3 Million book-loving members.
To help organize my narrative arc in a poetry chapbook, I list 3 - 5 keywords at the top of each poem - - that is, each "potential poem" that has been printed out and placed in a separate WIP folder.
My keyword method has worked for me, got me thinking about where to place a poem -- or to omit it..
FYI: in 2024 I released "Apprenticed to the Night" (England: UniVerse Press, 66 poems) + two chapbooks.
Thanks, Sonja. For all of us who share limited floor space with our pets or toddlers or dustballs . . . and don't have room to fan out pages . . . this simple KEYWORDS method will also help remind you to fold certain poems into more than one collection. EX: My poem "The Poltergeists of President Street" - - - recounting my Uncle Larry's experiences when he held his poker games in a violently haunted hose in Brooklyn - - - appeared in both "Apprenticed to the Night" [U.K.: UniVerse Press, 2024] and in "Always Haunted: Hallowe'en Poems" [USA: Wild Ink Publishing, 2024]. Keywords were: NYC, family, paranormal, eerie, haunted house. My poem "Dracula Plans His Hallowe'en Soiree" appeared in "Vampire Ventures" {USA: Alien Buddha Press, 2023] and also in this year's "Always Haunted: Hallowe'en Poems." Keywords were: Hallowe'en, Dracula, vampire, speculative, horror. A poem about my Cousin Joseph's suicide at age 34, "Tuesdays with the Ghost," appeared in "Felones de Se: Suicide Poems" [Canada: Ukiyoto, 2024] and will be used again in my WIP "Dark and Airy Spirits." Keywords were: NYC, family, death, grief, paranormal, ghost. Since I often forget about older poems, jotting down KEYWORDS on the top of a print-out has been a helpful visual cue. Sonja, thanks for checking out my books. You can read my illustrated collection "Always Haunted: Hallowe'en Poems" for FREE on NetGalley, LibraryThing, and BookSirens.
So magical to get more of a deep dive into this journey, you Inspire me every day, thanks Bingo Grandma Ringy! My favourite part is the photo of you holding your two books where you look a lot like that creature from Lord of the Rings! Love you always XOXO
HAHA i love you so much Gelfy!! Thanks for reading along on my book adventures and always supporting me & being the best best friend <33 I can't wait to collaborate with you on our extra special project someday!!
Fascinating to get to ride along in the process train with you! I wish I had an editor like your dad. Do you think male bias is a problem? I love the plastered with poems wall.
Sonja this is pure gold! To any aspiring authors, this is a bible!
The floor method is such a vibe, I remember it all too well. Also, why does it honestly feel like you’re banishing a best friend when cutting poems from your manuscript? 😂
I love how you created the cover for Mortal Atlas, what a true creative you are!
I only have experience with KDP too, however I know a few poets that have published through IngramSparks. I looked into for my coffee table poetry book, but even after a lot of research, Amazon still worked much better for what I needed.
Really looking forward to your article on marketing, because that’s where I struggle! Why is marketing your work sooo hard 🙈
I'm so thrilled to hear that it was helpful, eeeeee, I was really hoping to make a super solid reference for people to look to throughout their journey.. the self-pub bible! thank you so much for reading it!! What was it about IngramSparks that made you not choose them in the end? And is your coffee table poetry book out yet? Sounds unreal 😍
The marketing article will be a fun one to write since I have been completely winging it ahaha, hoping others can learn from my mistakes & lessons I've learned along the way
With IngramSparks for my coffee table book especially, it wasn’t letting me create my account properly and I wasn’t getting much help from customer service in all honesty. Although I know other poets use them all time, I was just weary that if I was having problems even creating an account, and accessing that, then it made me wonder if I ever had an issue with the book that it would be difficult to sort.
Also, Amazon KDP is just so user-friendly!
Aw thank you so much! Yes! My first coffee table poetry book is out now 🥰 Working on the autumn edition as we speak.
Oooh I know how you feel with winging it! I think all us creatives are just doing the same when marketing because it doesn’t exactly feel natural to us.
Ooh good call, customer service is SO important I would also not go with a company if I found that they weren't helpful right off the bat. I'm excited to check out your coffee table book!! <3
Yeah it was a big thing for me. I mean I know KDP isn’t always brilliant with customer service, but at least it’s more straightforward! Aww thank you! 🥰 x
i adored this read! so many good quotes, i’m going to have to revisit. as someone who has gone thru this process, i resonated deeply with your experience.
This was so informative! I just have one question: how you know you've written enough poems to begin compiling for a collection? I've written so many poems with the goal of a full-length collection, but I don't know if I should begin compiling or not, or even what concept I want for my collection. I write a lot about girlhood/childhood, identity, politics, and memory. I don't really know how to arrange my poems into a narrative arc (or at least a coherent one).
First of all, I'm so excited for you! How many do you think you have right now? I don't think it's ever too early to begin compiling them, to be honest. Even if you have like, 20, 30, however many.. you can start typing them up into a word doc and keep adding to it! I feel like this kind of adds momentum in my experience.
I think all of the themes you mentioned could possibly live together in a book! My current one has about 4 themes that complement eachother. Once you see them all together in the doc, or printed on a wall, you'll probably see a couple possible stories forming. Like with mortal atlas the vibe went from this innocence & wonder, then plunged into grief and darkness, then the 3rd and final chapter is the wisdom and heartspace that comes after all of that.. I hope this helps!
I know I probably have more than 200 poems written and they don't all share the same "vibe" (because I write poems based on the "vibe" or tone that I want mostly) so it's kind of hard to look at them altogether, especially when I wrote them for different unofficial collections that I post on my Wattpad which have their own distinct vibe/tone/mood. I think I'll try either gathering my favorites or gathering the ones I think are in conversation with each other and then go from there.
That's a solid idea, navigating compiling them based on vibes is a good approach. Gathering favs + ones in conversation with eachother is perfect, you're on a roll. And you have so many to choose from already too! Weeeeee <33
Loved hearing about your process!! <3 gorgeous books & writing, m'dear. Also I really love that your dad is your editor. That's really tender and special.
Thank you for this! Also, I know you said a normal poetry book has 70-100 pages, but a question I have is: How many poems do you need to have for a regular poetry book? Around 60 for example?
Since when I checked other poetry books to see as a reference, they had at least 150 which seems very hard to do unless you invested many years into writing and the poems you have fit the theme of the poetry collection.
Great question! My first book for example has 128 pages, and 66 poems. A few of the poems span 2 or more pages, so it really does come down to poem length and other variables. Even your trim size will play a part in the number of pages, since if you have a smaller trim size, your poems may need more than 1 page each.. but with a larger print size that same poem may fit on 1 page. 150 pages is definitely on the longer side, but there really are no rules. 60 pages is definitely enough for a book of poems :) I'd lean into quality over quantity
the formatting of each poem will play a part in the page number too! If each line has only a few words before the line break, the poem will be visually "longer" even if there are few words, and take up more space.. so so many variables hehe
Most of the poetry books I've read have been between 40-50 poems and around 80 pages, give or take. But the number of poems depends on your concept, themes, etc., I believe. But based on the debut collections I've read they tend to be around 40-50. Instapoetry (or micropoetry) books tend to be the ones that are around 200 pages or so given the short length of the majority of the poems.
Also, if books with really long poems which span multiple pages (usually one or two), typically have less poems but the length is still around 80-90 pages. Hope this all helps!
This is such a generous insight Sonja, thank you thank you
I’m so glad it found you! Thanks for reading along 🙏🏼💗
Sonja, I wanted to mention that authors can promote new books for FREE on LibraryThing. Their newsletter goes out once a month to their 3.3 Million book-loving members.
To help organize my narrative arc in a poetry chapbook, I list 3 - 5 keywords at the top of each poem - - that is, each "potential poem" that has been printed out and placed in a separate WIP folder.
My keyword method has worked for me, got me thinking about where to place a poem -- or to omit it..
FYI: in 2024 I released "Apprenticed to the Night" (England: UniVerse Press, 66 poems) + two chapbooks.
I love this tip, thank you for sharing it!! I’m gonna use it for my upcoming collection hehe 💗 excited to check out your book!
Thanks, Sonja. For all of us who share limited floor space with our pets or toddlers or dustballs . . . and don't have room to fan out pages . . . this simple KEYWORDS method will also help remind you to fold certain poems into more than one collection. EX: My poem "The Poltergeists of President Street" - - - recounting my Uncle Larry's experiences when he held his poker games in a violently haunted hose in Brooklyn - - - appeared in both "Apprenticed to the Night" [U.K.: UniVerse Press, 2024] and in "Always Haunted: Hallowe'en Poems" [USA: Wild Ink Publishing, 2024]. Keywords were: NYC, family, paranormal, eerie, haunted house. My poem "Dracula Plans His Hallowe'en Soiree" appeared in "Vampire Ventures" {USA: Alien Buddha Press, 2023] and also in this year's "Always Haunted: Hallowe'en Poems." Keywords were: Hallowe'en, Dracula, vampire, speculative, horror. A poem about my Cousin Joseph's suicide at age 34, "Tuesdays with the Ghost," appeared in "Felones de Se: Suicide Poems" [Canada: Ukiyoto, 2024] and will be used again in my WIP "Dark and Airy Spirits." Keywords were: NYC, family, death, grief, paranormal, ghost. Since I often forget about older poems, jotting down KEYWORDS on the top of a print-out has been a helpful visual cue. Sonja, thanks for checking out my books. You can read my illustrated collection "Always Haunted: Hallowe'en Poems" for FREE on NetGalley, LibraryThing, and BookSirens.
Your covers are beautiful! I adore the floor and wall method. 🧡
Thank you so much, Esther 💗 The wall method has been a fun new one for me!
So magical to get more of a deep dive into this journey, you Inspire me every day, thanks Bingo Grandma Ringy! My favourite part is the photo of you holding your two books where you look a lot like that creature from Lord of the Rings! Love you always XOXO
HAHA i love you so much Gelfy!! Thanks for reading along on my book adventures and always supporting me & being the best best friend <33 I can't wait to collaborate with you on our extra special project someday!!
Fascinating to get to ride along in the process train with you! I wish I had an editor like your dad. Do you think male bias is a problem? I love the plastered with poems wall.
Hahahahahaha PAPA! the "wish u had an editor like my dad" part made me cackle. I'd love to see all of your poems on a wall someday <33
Sonja this is pure gold! To any aspiring authors, this is a bible!
The floor method is such a vibe, I remember it all too well. Also, why does it honestly feel like you’re banishing a best friend when cutting poems from your manuscript? 😂
I love how you created the cover for Mortal Atlas, what a true creative you are!
I only have experience with KDP too, however I know a few poets that have published through IngramSparks. I looked into for my coffee table poetry book, but even after a lot of research, Amazon still worked much better for what I needed.
Really looking forward to your article on marketing, because that’s where I struggle! Why is marketing your work sooo hard 🙈
I'm so thrilled to hear that it was helpful, eeeeee, I was really hoping to make a super solid reference for people to look to throughout their journey.. the self-pub bible! thank you so much for reading it!! What was it about IngramSparks that made you not choose them in the end? And is your coffee table poetry book out yet? Sounds unreal 😍
The marketing article will be a fun one to write since I have been completely winging it ahaha, hoping others can learn from my mistakes & lessons I've learned along the way
With IngramSparks for my coffee table book especially, it wasn’t letting me create my account properly and I wasn’t getting much help from customer service in all honesty. Although I know other poets use them all time, I was just weary that if I was having problems even creating an account, and accessing that, then it made me wonder if I ever had an issue with the book that it would be difficult to sort.
Also, Amazon KDP is just so user-friendly!
Aw thank you so much! Yes! My first coffee table poetry book is out now 🥰 Working on the autumn edition as we speak.
Oooh I know how you feel with winging it! I think all us creatives are just doing the same when marketing because it doesn’t exactly feel natural to us.
Ooh good call, customer service is SO important I would also not go with a company if I found that they weren't helpful right off the bat. I'm excited to check out your coffee table book!! <3
Yeah it was a big thing for me. I mean I know KDP isn’t always brilliant with customer service, but at least it’s more straightforward! Aww thank you! 🥰 x
Loved reading this 🥰❤️👍 Thank you Sonja!
Thanks for always making me smile, Reem, you're the best 💕💕
i adored this read! so many good quotes, i’m going to have to revisit. as someone who has gone thru this process, i resonated deeply with your experience.
I'm so grateful for you always <33 It's such a fun process and there are so many different ways to go about it!
I don’t even see myself self-publishing a book of poetry, but this was so lovely to read! You have such a calming and friendly way of writing. :)
Oh my gosh that is so kind of you to say!! Awwww!!
This was so helpful! Thank you!!
My pleasure Lindsey!! Always happy & eager to help 🥰 Thanks for taking the time to read it <3
this is so helpful and inspiring, sonja! thank you for this 🖤
Aww thank you Ashley!! I'm smitten that you read it & found it helpful/inspiring, yay!! <3
Super helpful! Thanks for taking time to put it together 😊
I'm so happy you found it helpful 🥰 it was really fun to gather all these thoughts and share em!
This was so informative! I just have one question: how you know you've written enough poems to begin compiling for a collection? I've written so many poems with the goal of a full-length collection, but I don't know if I should begin compiling or not, or even what concept I want for my collection. I write a lot about girlhood/childhood, identity, politics, and memory. I don't really know how to arrange my poems into a narrative arc (or at least a coherent one).
First of all, I'm so excited for you! How many do you think you have right now? I don't think it's ever too early to begin compiling them, to be honest. Even if you have like, 20, 30, however many.. you can start typing them up into a word doc and keep adding to it! I feel like this kind of adds momentum in my experience.
I think all of the themes you mentioned could possibly live together in a book! My current one has about 4 themes that complement eachother. Once you see them all together in the doc, or printed on a wall, you'll probably see a couple possible stories forming. Like with mortal atlas the vibe went from this innocence & wonder, then plunged into grief and darkness, then the 3rd and final chapter is the wisdom and heartspace that comes after all of that.. I hope this helps!
I know I probably have more than 200 poems written and they don't all share the same "vibe" (because I write poems based on the "vibe" or tone that I want mostly) so it's kind of hard to look at them altogether, especially when I wrote them for different unofficial collections that I post on my Wattpad which have their own distinct vibe/tone/mood. I think I'll try either gathering my favorites or gathering the ones I think are in conversation with each other and then go from there.
That's a solid idea, navigating compiling them based on vibes is a good approach. Gathering favs + ones in conversation with eachother is perfect, you're on a roll. And you have so many to choose from already too! Weeeeee <33
Loved hearing about your process!! <3 gorgeous books & writing, m'dear. Also I really love that your dad is your editor. That's really tender and special.
Thanks so much, Amy!! Him being my editor is so fun I feel rly lucky <33 How did you go about finding an editor for your book?
My editor was someone offering editing services in the writing community on IG! But I think next time I'll find someone on EFA.org 😊
Oops the-efa.org hehe
amazing thank youuuu maybe someone will see dis and find their editor that way :D
Thank you for this! Also, I know you said a normal poetry book has 70-100 pages, but a question I have is: How many poems do you need to have for a regular poetry book? Around 60 for example?
Since when I checked other poetry books to see as a reference, they had at least 150 which seems very hard to do unless you invested many years into writing and the poems you have fit the theme of the poetry collection.
Great question! My first book for example has 128 pages, and 66 poems. A few of the poems span 2 or more pages, so it really does come down to poem length and other variables. Even your trim size will play a part in the number of pages, since if you have a smaller trim size, your poems may need more than 1 page each.. but with a larger print size that same poem may fit on 1 page. 150 pages is definitely on the longer side, but there really are no rules. 60 pages is definitely enough for a book of poems :) I'd lean into quality over quantity
the formatting of each poem will play a part in the page number too! If each line has only a few words before the line break, the poem will be visually "longer" even if there are few words, and take up more space.. so so many variables hehe
Most of the poetry books I've read have been between 40-50 poems and around 80 pages, give or take. But the number of poems depends on your concept, themes, etc., I believe. But based on the debut collections I've read they tend to be around 40-50. Instapoetry (or micropoetry) books tend to be the ones that are around 200 pages or so given the short length of the majority of the poems.
Also, if books with really long poems which span multiple pages (usually one or two), typically have less poems but the length is still around 80-90 pages. Hope this all helps!
I feel like 200 pages is overwhelming unless it's like, Margaret Atwood's collected poems or something then I'd eat that up ahaha
I totally agree, great response!